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Looks pretty bad from down here in GA too...

Well, it looks bad, but can be rationalized as such (at least at this juncture): bad guys shoot up a corner and flee...PD gives chase, gets enough back-up for a felony take-down traffic stop...bad guys stop the car but then fail to comply with verbal commands...PD goes to hands-on tactics, and bad guys resist...PD applies pain-compliance measures until effective...

But it still looks bad from the helicopter's view...

I hate to monday-morning quarterback something I wasn't at first-hand, but it's things like this that we need to learn from, from an officer-safety standpoint. It looked like there were at least five squads there immediately when the bad guys stopped, and I would assume that every one of them knew the corner had just been shot up. We train and we rehearse for this very scenario; the bad guys come out of the car one at a time, walk backwards, hands up, stop, lift your shirt, turn around in a full circle, keep walking backwards, etc...and we make them come to US...and we do this in a very deliberate and a very controlled manner. This also greatly reduces the possibilty of fratricide (did you see the officers on both sides of the car, as well as in front of and behind it? that's bad ju-ju)...

We're professionals; we train like it so we can act like it when the opportunity presents itself. For everyone that has watched the video: learn from it, even if it's something small or insignificant now, because it may be the saving point for you or one of your brothers or sisters in blue in the future...

Lesson Learned.....don't run from the police!

hcgale says ...

i am not going to judge from just the video shown.  dont know what happened before the video started and couldnt hear anything at all that was said.  but what i do know is that the turds that were taken out of the car had weapons and had just basically done a drive by.   its just amazing that the ones who started this all have all of a sudden become the "victim".

All the officers had to do was use sufficient force and they wouldn't have allowed the criminals to become victims. They created their own problem.

And I understand benefit of the doubt, but would you give the same benefit to someone who wasn't an officer and videotaped in-the-act of something that looked really bad? Even in the worst case it isn't justifiable to keep beating someone when any danger they posed has passed.

american27 says ...

All i have to say is the american justice system is to easy on criminals.  If i remember this story these a- holes were involved in a shooting.  like i always say if you have no respect for human life and you can't live according to societies rules then you should be stripped of all your rights as a civilan and be treated like the low life criminal you are.  sorry but until we get tougher and stop defending these violent criminals and giving them all these rights and protections this world will get worse.

Well Said!

As an Ethics Instructor, I called a contact today, and was told that the suspects were most likely still armed and were not placing their hands out of their waistbands as ordered.....

Also, Officers in Philly are not all equipped with Tasers....they have to call in for one to arrive on scene.....perhaps that would have helped control the suspects on the ground instead?  Who knows.  Philly needs to properly equip their officers first.....until then, tactics like this against armed suspects who do not comply will have to do....

pujo says ...

american27 says ...

All i have to say is the american justice system is to easy on criminals.  If i remember this story these a- holes were involved in a shooting.  like i always say if you have no respect for human life and you can't live according to societies rules then you should be stripped of all your rights as a civilan and be treated like the low life criminal you are.  sorry but until we get tougher and stop defending these violent criminals and giving them all these rights and protections this world will get worse.

What the heck is wrong with you? Until these guys are convicted of a crime they're not criminals, they're suspects. I'm all for using force to take down a suspect who poses a danger, but these guys were past that. With that in mind, what you're proposing is that police act like street judges & juries and met out punishment on the spot. You and I both know that's not what the police are here to do, and I don't think most of them want that responsibility. A few officers, for whatever reason, got overzealous, happens sometimes.

First of all my liberal friend there is nothing wrong with me. I did not say that it is our jobs as a police officers to just go around beating criminals.  we have rules and guidlines as cops and we need to follow them. by the way these three idiots were the shooters.  all i am saying is we need to get tougher on criminals.

KETOLACA says ...

As an Ethics Instructor, I called a contact today, and was told that the suspects were most likely still armed and were not placing their hands out of their waistbands as ordered.....

Also, Officers in Philly are not all equipped with Tasers....they have to call in for one to arrive on scene.....perhaps that would have helped control the suspects on the ground instead?  Who knows.  Philly needs to properly equip their officers first.....until then, tactics like this against armed suspects who do not comply will have to do....

pujo take note of what Keto has posted.  Obviously the danger had not passed.  He is a trusted and honest member of this site so I believe what he has to say.  You are not,  Your anti-law enforcement sentiments you have posted are uneducated and biased and are inflaming difficult times for us. 

nikkochey says ...

pujo has been cautioned to choose his words carefully and to reread the Terms of use. Any repeat performances like the one in the other thread he responded to will result in a suspension of his account.

Beautiful, y'all are on fire tonight.

hospitalcop says ...

Clearly this is a situation that was extremely stressful. Prior posts have made some very valid points about officer safety. Considering that the area was saturated with many officers very quickly it appears (to me at least) that emotions and not tactics dictated what transpired.

Part of officer safety is the LEGAL consequences afterwards.... TRUST ME on this....

The video in and of itself does NOT look very good for several of the initial officers...BUT remember we didn't see & hear EVERYTHING. In the Rodney King incident the video was a portion of the facts...NOT the WHOLE thing.

My semi-educated opinion is that in light of the fact that the suspects were known to not only have been in possession of, but actually FIRED weapons and refused to comply (reportedly) with a standard felony stop take down... I'm thinking secure the area and treat 'em as BARRICADED Armed suspects. And after watching the video a second time it appeared that all they did was rush the car and not Attempt a felony stop.

Imagine how many officers could have been shot/killed in this scenario if the badguys had decided to go out "in a blaze of glory"? I counted potentially  5 officers, not to mention the cross firing risk factors... How would you feel if you killed a brother/sister officer due to cross fire?

I agree with you on the approach of the vehicle.  There should have definitely been a more controlled tactic used.  The crossfire situation was definitely a potential nightmare. 

pujo says ...

hcgale says ...

i am not going to judge from just the video shown.  dont know what happened before the video started and couldnt hear anything at all that was said.  but what i do know is that the turds that were taken out of the car had weapons and had just basically done a drive by.   its just amazing that the ones who started this all have all of a sudden become the "victim".

All the officers had to do was use sufficient force and they wouldn't have allowed the criminals to become victims. They created their own problem.

And I understand benefit of the doubt, but would you give the same benefit to someone who wasn't an officer and videotaped in-the-act of something that looked really bad? Even in the worst case it isn't justifiable to keep beating someone when any danger they posed has passed.

back under the bridge before you hurt yourself IDIOT!

I saw that clip today at the gym. I was on the treamill with a co worker next to me and I went " oh shit ! winters look thats one old fashioned ass whoopin" we just started laughing and a few other runners were just looking at us ..it was hilarious,, I guess you had to be there.lol

I'm pretty much with everybody else on this one ... it certainly looks bad, but I doubt very seriously we know the whole story. I will not Monday morning quarterback on this like the media is. They are putting their usual spin on things.