PoliceLink

Offroader21 says ...

I was reading the paper a couple weeks ago and read about California legalizing gay marriage and the controversy surrounding it. I wanted to get your take on it and tell me what you think about this type of thing being legalized.

(How bout we try to leave religon out of this one and get opinons of a different nature.)

That's allmost impossible to do, as most views and opinions stem from the religious teaching we  were groomed with form the word of God. We are a country that, " In God We Trust" no matter who many people, groups, cults, religions attempt to change what Christians believe, and remove many statues, wording, school books, schools, Court houses etc., etc., etc try to change. Not only these types of marriages, our own American Flag.  People wake up to the fact what our Forefathers fought and attained for us.

i look at it this way....gays have just as much of a right to be as miserable as us straight married couple out there, who cares. i dont like the choice that is made but like i said they have as much a right to be like straight married couples

Gay marriges? Heck if homosexuals want to get married, then who gives a flying f*ck? Why do we even think this is a big deal? We're in a country that does abortions and stem-cell research and people think that two people shouldn't be happy with each other because of some religious moral crap...

Personally, I'm glad "In God We Trust" isn't shoved down my throat everyday...although I wish kids would still have to do the pledge of allegance each day (or at least stand for it while I say it) in school. Your country pays for your public education, you should be proud of it!

Don't get me wrong, I'm patriotic and I'm religious (well I'm "spiritual" to be technical).

But what we forget that sometimes that homosexuals, gays, faggots (whatever you want to call them) are people too.

Personally don't care and can't see where it hurt or bothers anyone else, unless they involve their piety.

Then you have these type people and their thoughts on the subject.

I think that gay marriage is something that should be between a man and a woman.

Arnold Schwartzanegger

thebig_d_58 says ...

another arguement i always heard is that gay couples are bad parents.....its so close minded its not even funny. so just b/c someone is gay that means that they are going to be bad parents and not be able to raise and teach a child how to grow up to be a decent human being w/ good morals and convictions? idk it always seemed close minded to me. and like you said it dont effect us so why should people care so much?

I agree and my argument is always "What straight people make better parents some how?"

We had a guy in phoenix who hired a babysitter off of Craigslist and then they found this 5 year old walking down the side of the road. As the police investigated come to find out he lied and never hired a babysitter and just left the baby alone while he went to work.

I must agree with Icelady in her statement that theology cannot be left out of this discussion since many views are based in the religion that they stem from.  As for the non-religious views, here are some I've read/heard before:

-Acceptance of homosexuality by a society is one factor that leads to that society's downfall.  It was noted that an increase in acceptance of homosexuality within the population of the Roman Empire is one of the factors included in its destruction.

-The majority of the mental health community agree that it is highly beneficial to the upbringing of a child if there is both a mother and father in the home.  Men and women play different roles in the upbringing of a child and the gender specific roles cannot be simulated by the opposite genders.

-Homosexualtiy is far more likely to spread STDs due to partner swapping and drug use.  This was recorded as being due to the high rates of multiple partners and the possibility of coming into contact with an intravenous drug user.  Multiple partner rates were as high as 85% (+/- 4%) of men have 15 or more partners in one year.  This study stated that these problems were much higher amongst homosexual men than homosexual women.

-Open sexuality displayed in the homosexual community is destructive to the moral fiber of society and threatens common decency.  This is seen in gay pride marches, typically where scantly clad men dance about and make sexually suggestive movement towards and against one another. 

AZmeangreen says ...

I must agree with Icelady in her statement that theology cannot be left out of this discussion since many views are based in the religion that they stem from.  As for the non-religious views, here are some I've read/heard before:

-Acceptance of homosexuality by a society is one factor that leads to that society's downfall.  It was noted that an increase in acceptance of homosexuality within the population of the Roman Empire is one of the factors included in its destruction.

-The majority of the mental health community agree that it is highly beneficial to the upbringing of a child if there is both a mother and father in the home.  Men and women play different roles in the upbringing of a child and the gender specific roles cannot be simulated by the opposite genders.

-Homosexualtiy is far more likely to spread STDs due to partner swapping and drug use.  This was recorded as being due to the high rates of multiple partners and the possibility of coming into contact with an intravenous drug user.  Multiple partner rates were as high as 85% (+/- 4%) of men have 15 or more partners in one year.  This study stated that these problems were much higher amongst homosexual men than homosexual women.

-Open sexuality displayed in the homosexual community is destructive to the moral fiber of society and threatens common decency.  This is seen in gay pride marches, typically where scantly clad men dance about and make sexually suggestive movement towards and against one another. 

Good points now to hit on both

#1 The Roman Empire had a lot of problems and no one can say specifically wether it was homosexuallity that brought it down or not. Your talking about the same society that built a colliseum to watch people fight to death. Just because we accept homosexuallity doesnt mean the moral fiber of a society will crumble same as the acceptance of other religons doesnt make us stronger.

#2 What about the single parents? I have a gay friend and my boy absolutely loves him and he is very great and patient with him. My boy is autistic and is VERY PARTICULAR who watches him. We dont live in a perfect world and just because there is a man and woman in the house doesnt mean the child will grow up just and right.

#3 The drug numbers amongst people in general has hit astronomical numbers as of recently. 15 partners per year for gay men isnt any different than straight men. A good friend of mine went through 8 in one month some 2 at a time.

#4 Open sexuallity is classified as what. I've hung around straight men that were worse than gay men. Shouting at women pushing kids around on strollers while these dirtballs were hollering and shouting profound things at this mother.

I appreciate your opinon but all your facts showed were they are human and no better or worse than straight couples/singles.

Offroader21 says ...

AZmeangreen says ...

I must agree with Icelady in her statement that theology cannot be left out of this discussion since many views are based in the religion that they stem from.  As for the non-religious views, here are some I've read/heard before:

-Acceptance of homosexuality by a society is one factor that leads to that society's downfall.  It was noted that an increase in acceptance of homosexuality within the population of the Roman Empire is one of the factors included in its destruction.

-The majority of the mental health community agree that it is highly beneficial to the upbringing of a child if there is both a mother and father in the home.  Men and women play different roles in the upbringing of a child and the gender specific roles cannot be simulated by the opposite genders.

-Homosexualtiy is far more likely to spread STDs due to partner swapping and drug use.  This was recorded as being due to the high rates of multiple partners and the possibility of coming into contact with an intravenous drug user.  Multiple partner rates were as high as 85% (+/- 4%) of men have 15 or more partners in one year.  This study stated that these problems were much higher amongst homosexual men than homosexual women.

-Open sexuality displayed in the homosexual community is destructive to the moral fiber of society and threatens common decency.  This is seen in gay pride marches, typically where scantly clad men dance about and make sexually suggestive movement towards and against one another. 

Good points now to hit on both

#1 The Roman Empire had a lot of problems and no one can say specifically wether it was homosexuallity that brought it down or not. Your talking about the same society that built a colliseum to watch people fight to death. Just because we accept homosexuallity doesnt mean the moral fiber of a society will crumble same as the acceptance of other religons doesnt make us stronger.

#2 What about the single parents? I have a gay friend and my boy absolutely loves him and he is very great and patient with him. My boy is autistic and is VERY PARTICULAR who watches him. We dont live in a perfect world and just because there is a man and woman in the house doesnt mean the child will grow up just and right.

#3 The drug numbers amongst people in general has hit astronomical numbers as of recently. 15 partners per year for gay men isnt any different than straight men. A good friend of mine went through 8 in one month some 2 at a time.

#4 Open sexuallity is classified as what. I've hung around straight men that were worse than gay men. Shouting at women pushing kids around on strollers while these dirtballs were hollering and shouting profound things at this mother.

I appreciate your opinon but all your facts showed were they are human and no better or worse than straight couples/singles.

-------------------------------------------

To clarify some of what I wrote:

#1 was only stating that it was a factor in the greater whole of Rome's fall.  There were numerous factors that played in their destruction.

#2.  I agree, single parents run into the same problem under the necessity for a child to have both a mother and father figure in their lives.  No, not all female/male couples rear children properly.  Most of the time I feel people should have to receive a license to have a child (j/k...mostly).  Still, there are things kids can only learn from a man and things they'll only learn from a woman. 

#3 While 15 partners in a year isn't different, the percentage rate is...straight men with 15+ partners a year is significantly lower. I believe it is less than 35% give or take a few points.  I should also include these numbers only included sexual partners, not the non-sexual romantic relationships.

#4 is specific to organized events and activism.

I never gave my opinion, these were all things read or heard via TV news/documentaries, internet, books, etc.  My opinion is that this group which comprises less than 1% of America's total population is pushing its agenda on society.  I've never been one for special interest groups influencing politics.  Look into their [the majority of the gay community according to their many organizations] politics and you find it high on marxist views and liberalism...funny, because under such views they would eventually be deemed a threat and "neutralized."

I must disagree again, I see gay marriage as a part of the greater LGBT special interest lobby agenda.  I think it would be unwise not to look at this issue from every possible angle: politics, religion, science, personal opinion, etc.  Why limit the discussion with arbitrary restrictions? As for the 4 points...

#1. I agree that it was minimal (as do most historians) but it was not non-existant.

#2. In response to the lesbian mothers...some adoption agencies are currently favoring lesbian mothers over many other mixed couples (straight, bi-racial, gay men couples).

#3. I'm unsure on the numbers of gays and straights questioned the info on both came from a couple different studies that were independant of each other (one only on gay men and the other only on straight men).  Got a lot of that info for a psych 101 paper...don't have most of the studies anymore, just my paper.

#4. Have to disagree, most activist events I've seen don't have straight men acting sexually suggestive, cursing on the other hand is probably up there...

AZmeangreen says ...

I must disagree again, I see gay marriage as a part of the greater LGBT special interest lobby agenda.  I think it would be unwise not to look at this issue from every possible angle: politics, religion, science, personal opinion, etc.  Why limit the discussion with arbitrary restrictions? As for the 4 points...

#1. I agree that it was minimal (as do most historians) but it was not non-existant.

#2. In response to the lesbian mothers...some adoption agencies are currently favoring lesbian mothers over many other mixed couples (straight, bi-racial, gay men couples).

#3. I'm unsure on the numbers of gays and straights questioned the info on both came from a couple different studies that were independant of each other (one only on gay men and the other only on straight men).  Got a lot of that info for a psych 101 paper...don't have most of the studies anymore, just my paper.

#4. Have to disagree, most activist events I've seen don't have straight men acting sexually suggestive, cursing on the other hand is probably up there...

Well i will agree to disagree with you then. The reason i dont want religon because then the topic strays and the point of the matter has not been touched. Then you got people like me with the how is your religon any better look at history type of person then people get heated and again the topic is not touched and we stray again. Politics have dirty tricks on both sides and i am not talking about the activitst groups i am talking about gay people in general

Now if you care to bring religon into this discussion i would say lets take it to a private forum as i do not want to offend any members on a public forum with what i have to say about religon. Be warned on that though that what is said dont take it personally but i will throw history at you that will probally more than likely p!$$ off quite a few people that read it.

With all that out of the way, you still have yet to prove gays are any worse off then straights when it comes to marriage. So lets broaden and bring up raising children then. What is your view on gays raising children versus straights. Now please i would like your opinon and whatever facts you can present on it. Thank you and i await your reply.

thebig_d_58 says ...

ahh the moral fiber arguement, yes b/c gays are ruining and destructing the households in america, get out of here. and open flaunts in sexuality? what bc someone is gay means that they are sexual perverts that want to hump everything? most gay people i've met have high standards, sometimes higher, than most straight people, just bc someone is gay dont mean they are gonna want to get in your pants. as for your 2 parent household (there needing to be a man and a woman), i was raised by just my mom for almost my entire childhood, and then by my dad for my teenage years, and they were able to pull off both rolls (and pretty well if i do say so myself) now granted i know not all of them are like that, but there are some who CAN do it (no matter how tough the job may be). and where does being gay and doing drugs fit in together? i'm just confused about that.

It is true that meth is a big plague amongst gay people. Just to chime in there

Offroader21 says ...

It is true that meth is a big plague amongst gay people. Just to chime in there

ok that i did not know, thank you for informing me on that

thebig_d_58 says ...

Offroader21 says ...

It is true that meth is a big plague amongst gay people. Just to chime in there

ok that i did not know, thank you for informing me on that

------------------

FYI - Latest report on meth and crack cocaine use within the gay community was at around 20%.

big_d, when I say poorly thought out sentences I talk of the grammar and choice of vocabulary.  I do not mean to insult, I'm just very direct sometimes. I will not respond to crudely expressed comments.  I've taken great care to keep the discussion civil and decent as has Offroader, I would simiply ask that you try to do the same so that this discussion doesn't become sidetracked with angry repsonses and immature langauge.  If we all work at keeping on a high standard then we can avoid attracting too many anger flames from bombarding this discussion. 

BTW offroader, it is a very interesting topic.