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Damonea
2746 posts
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A recent event has given me cause to be opinionated again, so I would like to warn you beforehand that you may want to get yourself a new full cup of coffee, your reading glasses, a comfortable chair, and prepare yourself for a lengthy read. :)
Just remember, you have been warned, this is going to be a looooong opinionated statement!
I have seen members disagree and some get suspended or sanctioned for it. I see a lot of this stemming from what obviously appears to be a miscommunication. What we, as users of the PL website, must remember is that this is the internet. Our ability to communicate is greatly diminished over half of what communication is due to the conversations taking place online. Communication is Tone, Body Language, and Words. Tone makes up 33%, Body Language 55%, and Words only make up 12% of communication.(http://www.icmi.com/WebModules/QueueTips/Question.aspx?ID=182) As you may be well aware of already, the internet restricts us to only 12% capability of communication. We cannot hear other member's tone so we have no idea if they are being serious, sarcastic, vindictive, sincere, friendly, or crass. We also cannot see the other member's body language so we cannot tell if they are feeling uneasy, look in their eyes to see if they are lying, see if they are agitated or calm, etc.
Out of 100% communication capability, we are only using 12% here on PL! So, in my opinion, miscommunication is going to be a frequent problem. PL has posted some advice in which they hope would help ease the interaction here on the site. In case you were one of the ones who did not take the time to locate it by clicking on the link, I will post it:
HOW TO BEHAVE
- Do’s and Don’ts - Argue all you want, but be respectful. This forum is provided to you for free, and is a public forum, but that does not give you the right to be disrespectful.
- This forum supports the Law Enforcement community. That doesn’t mean that non-Law Enforcement personnel are not welcome, but it DOES mean that certain beliefs and traditions are held in higher regard. Among these are:
- Respect for the uniform, if not the man (or woman) in spite of inter-service rivalry. All of us like to tease the others about our respective services, but keep it light.
- Don’t question the service of another member. Nothing gives you the right to disparage anyone who served honorably.
- Those that have direct law enforcement experience in a given topic have a higher level of regard than others here (within their area of expertise). If you jump in offering your opinions on a particular subject, your level of experience comes into play.
- Sensitive information. Certain information, while not strictly confidential, is still not appropriate for discussion on a forum that is open to a world wide audience. If in doubt, don’t talk about it.
- Don’t rant and rave –Try to use reasoned debate, logic, credible sources, etc. In time you will be listened to with respect and you’ll enjoy your time here. - Keep a thick skin and a sense of humor. You are in amongst a number of folks who may or may not be ‘PC’. Understand that most of it is in fun.
- Agree to disagree - don’t keep hammering away with a point that another member refuses to acknowledge. Just agree to have a different viewpoint; otherwise the resentment builds. -Name Calling is discouraged and not seen as a way to “win” a debate. Resorting to name calling generally results in disruptive posts by all parties involved, and will lead to suspension of posting privileges.
-“Calling Out” of a member is not allowed because it disrupts the normal flow of debate on these forums. These are discussion forums. Not a place to air personal grudges.
-Posting “Incendiary” Threads. Members who post extremely controversial thread topics for the sole purpose of aggravating large “groups” of members will have their threads moved and will face disciplinary action by the Moderators.
-Respect the Moderators. The Moderators are those individuals who monitor the forums, assist the members, and ensure that the TOU are adhered to. On this site, the Mods are the all-knowing, all-powerful presence of your little universe. If they give you a warning, HEED IT - the next warning will be your sanctioning (removal off the site). Moderators enjoy some flexibility in applying discipline on these Forums. Members, who calm down, and comply with Moderator warnings will fair better than those who do not.
-Checking profiles: Look at a member’s profile before you get into it with them. Simply click on their screen name and you can find out more about the poster. This is very useful, and will keep you from making mistakes like: referring to a woman as “he”, debating tactical issues with a Master SWAT Officer when you are not. It also lets you find out more about your fellow PoliceLink.com members.
There you go, newbie – a bit of wisdom to get you started. Read, heed, and Welcome Aboard!
Chris Cosgriff
Editor, PoliceLink.com
(http://www.policelink.com/topics/18924-forum-rules-faqs/posts)
Here may be a touchy subject, but I feel it necessary at this time to discuss it. PL is an online LAW ENFORCEMENT community. Those not directly involved in LE are guests or visitors. It has been stated many times by many members that LEOs rank higher than nonLEOs here, for obvious reasons. However, as of late I have seen LEOs being asked to refrain from their manner of speaking because this is a public site. I am not sure if I am misinterpreting, but it seems as though this is a contradiction. LEOs are suppose to have the right to communicate in this community created for them, yet when a nonLEO gets their panties in a twist because of something typed on a computer screen, then the LEO is the one who has to bow down and take on the privilege of eggshell-walking on words. Okay, let me be frank--I am a nonLEO and I am sick of seeing nonLEOs have more power on the words allowed here than the LEOs who this site is for. Now if I am wrong in this opinion, I am open to a knew understanding and you may feel free to reeducate me:)
There are billions of people on this planet, there are hundreds (if not thousands) of languages spoken, and there is an uncountable number of words from past and present years. If all we can use here are words, then MISCOMMUNICATION is going to be frequetn. Yet, in my opinion (again), I think that with some effort and understanding we can work together to make this the LE community it can and should be.
This thread is about communication, so let us get into some more RULES & REGULATIONS that come into play with communication here at PL. Please look at the USER AGREEMENT (read 5 and 14)
(http://www.policelink.com/topics/18924-forum-rules-faqs/posts)
And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. ~Abraham Lincoln
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Damonea
2746 posts
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Now since this is a POLICE website, I will also hit a few legal points that also are in regards to language used on the internet...
Defamation:
The term defamation refers to a false statement made about someone or some organization that is damaging to their reputation. For a statement to be defamatory, the statement must be published to a third party, and the person publishing the statement must have known or should have known that the statement was false. The law of defamation is complex, as it has been determined by numerous court decisions rather than one national statute. In addition, a claim of defamation is subject to a variety of defenses, such as the First Amendment and (of course) the defense that the statement was true. Because of the complexity of defamation law, a full explanation of this area will not be set forth here, and is saved for others to provide.
While the Internet provides a new context in which a defaming statement can be made and published, there is little new law relating to Internet defamation other than liability for service providers. Nonetheless, web page developers must be careful to avoid defaming someone in their pages. If a statement is being made that may damage the reputation of a person or organization, care should be taken to make sure that the statement is not defaming.
(http://www.bitlaw.com/internet/webpage.html#defamation)
"The First Amendment protects a significant amount of verbal criticism directed at police officers. 'Speech' is often provocative and challenging, but it is nevertheless protected against censorship or challenge, unless shown to be likely to produce a clear and present danger of a serious substantive evil that rises far above public inconvenience, annoyance, or unrest. The Constitution does not allow such speech to be made a crime. The freedom of individuals verbally to oppose or challenge police action without thereby risking arrest is one of the principal characteristics by which we distinguish a free nation from a police state." (Houston v. Hill)
(Please also know that this can also be applied to nonLEOs; that an officer has the right of speech and is protected to have "a significant amount of verbal criticism directed at" people. And while I have seen some nonLEOs throw out "ethics" and such towards an officer's actions here, we as HUMANS should also have an amount of ethics and should not use any creeds or pledges as a leash or a way to get what you want!)
In Duran v. City of Douglas, Arizona, for instance, police officers made a vehicle stop and arrested the passenger, Ralph Duran, after he made an obscene hand gesture and yelled profanities at them. Duran sued and was awarded summary judgment against the city and the officers for violation of his First Amendment rights.
Citing the ruling in Houston v. Hill, the federal appeals court said the following: "We cannot, of course, condone Duran's conduct; it was boorish, crass and unjustified. Our hard-working law enforcement officers surely deserve better treatment from members of the public. But disgraceful as Duran's behavior may have been, it was not illegal; criticism of the police is not a crime.
"While police, no less than anyone else, may resent having obscene words and gestures directed at them, they may not exercise the awesome power at their disposal to punish individuals for conduct that is not merely lawful, but protected by the First Amendment. Inarticulate and crude as Duran's conduct may have been, it fell squarely within the protective umbrella of the First Amendment and any action to punish or deter such speech—such as stopping or hassling the speaker—is categorically prohibited by the Constitution." (Duran v. Douglas)
(Now while I am sure nonLEOs would love to use this to their own advantage, just remember that the same First Amendment rules that apply to nonLEOs, also applies to LEOs. So when a nonLEO has been trash talking and throws a hissy fit because a LEO may have done the same in return, you are BOTH covered under the First Amendment!---However, that does not mean open your mouth and talk like a jack@$$, you still have to abide by PL's rules here!)
(http://www.policemag.com/Articles/2008/07/Civil-Liability-and-Protected-Speech.aspx)
Common courtesy is the key here! In order to get respect, you have to give respect!!! If you want to ask a question that has been repeatedly asked, expect an irritated response. If you are going to ask a question that has a typo in every other word, then expect to recieve an unpleasant response to your obvious lack of respect. If you are going to ask a dumb question, expect to get a sarcastic response.
Please also remember that it is okay to disagree and, as I have personally learned, you sometimes need to step away from the keyboard then come back and reread the wording. You are not hearing the tone or seeing the body language so it is all left up to your own interpretation of what a person you do not know may mean with their words. Do NOT be afraid to step away from the conversation if you do not like the direction it is going! Remember the sibling who kept punching you in the arm during road trips...well quit antagonizing the situation and the sibling will get bored with punching your arm!!!
If you have read this far then I owe you a new cup of coffee

Thank you for allowing me to voice my opinion (again)! 
Stay safe and God bless
Amber
And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. ~Abraham Lincoln
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cwtlady
659 posts
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Those are good thoughts and very true. We, non-LEOs are the guests. We are in their house and should act accordingly.
Thank you for taking the time to put those thoughts together.
no longer here....at behindthevest.com
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bcsodispatcher
744 posts
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Girl..you are on a roll!! I type at work all night long and would be absolutely warn out from typing the posts you have typed! Thanks for being so supportive..Im in law enforcement but by no means am i an officer. I do/have worked with some of the best! The LEOs i have met on here are amazing and really do have some great advice! Some of them are direct and to the point..no sugarcoating. The way it should be!
If you ask/post something stupid or just plain "out there", you are obviously going to get whats coming. You know what you're getting yourself into..take the advice of the the wise ones on here.
Thanks to the officers that really give a damn and take the time to respond.
~~~In God we trust, All others we run through NCIC ~~~
~~~'The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.'
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bad_LT
8181 posts
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OK OK OK OK Now my head hurts....... I did not suspend him .................. I was not around when it happened.
Your comment is well thought out and properly researched to a certain degree to support your postion in this matter.
How long was he suspended for??
For so long as one hundred men remain alive, we shall never under any conditions submit to the domination of the English. It is not for glory or riches or honours that we fight, but only for liberty, which no good man will consent to lose but with his life.
The Declaration of Arbroath, 1320
SCREW TIBET FREE SCOTLAND !!!!
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Damonea
2746 posts
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bad_LT says ...
OK OK OK OK Now my head hurts....... I did not suspend him .................. I was not around when it happened.
Your comment is well thought out and properly researched to a certain degree to support your postion in this matter.
How long was he suspended for??
I know you did not suspend him bad_LT, already know who did. This was not only based on Navy's situation, but others I have seen as well :) And he is suspended until the 22nd....four more days and counting :)
And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. ~Abraham Lincoln
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LT120
766 posts
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WELL PUT.IT WAS DEEP,BUT WELL PUT.
IF YOU ARE R.O.D."RETIRED ON DUTY"GO AHEAD AND RETIRE!
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Damonea
2746 posts
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FYI--Before anyone else says something, this was NOT about NavyCop, inspired yes, but not solely about him! I have seen other situations in which a LEO was asked to quiet down because of a nonLEO. I also see a lot of conflict on here because of MISCOMMUNICATION. I was just sharing my opinion on the subject. I meant it generally and not directed at any particular situation. I apologize if it came across wrong and I hope no one took offense...like I said, it is just MY OPINION :)
Stay safe and God bless
Amber
aka Damonea
And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. ~Abraham Lincoln
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bad_LT
8181 posts
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NONE taken I was just in the dark as to why and wanted to let you know that.....
For so long as one hundred men remain alive, we shall never under any conditions submit to the domination of the English. It is not for glory or riches or honours that we fight, but only for liberty, which no good man will consent to lose but with his life.
The Declaration of Arbroath, 1320
SCREW TIBET FREE SCOTLAND !!!!
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jakesdadBANNED
2702 posts
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In Duran v. City of Douglas, Arizona, for instance, police officers made a vehicle stop and arrested the passenger, Ralph Duran, after he made an obscene hand gesture and yelled profanities at them. Duran sued and was awarded summary judgment against the city and the officers for violation of his First Amendment rights.
Just a side note, Duran v. City of Douglas, Arizona had a bit more than just that. Here is a link : http://www.altlaw.org/v1/cases/446391
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Lulusgt
2715 posts
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Whoaaaaaaa, ADD kicked in, I'll take everybody elses word that it was a good post! Ohhhhh my head!
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Damonea
2746 posts
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jakesdad says ...
In Duran v. City of Douglas, Arizona, for instance, police officers made a vehicle stop and arrested the passenger, Ralph Duran, after he made an obscene hand gesture and yelled profanities at them. Duran sued and was awarded summary judgment against the city and the officers for violation of his First Amendment rights.
Just a side note, Duran v. City of Douglas, Arizona had a bit more than just that. Here is a link : http://www.altlaw.org/v1/cases/446391
Thank you jakesdad, the information I recieved was from a magazine, I posted the link to the article. I will look more at the link you provided, thanks!
And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. ~Abraham Lincoln
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cowgirl_lieutenant
26 posts
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In reading through these posts, it is just amazing to me how much emotion goes into fighting on these boards. I know that if I was off base on here and it got back to my Sheriff, I would probably be looking at a few days off without pay or maybe even a demotion. This is supposed to be a place to share information and learn from each other. I don't understand the fighting when we are supposed to conduct ourselves in a manner that would not bring discredit upon our department. I come here to get a lot of information for work. I haven't posted much lately because it seems like someone or another wants to throw mud at someone else, LEO or nonLEO. I know some of you will look at my profile and say, she just works the jail. But I went to the police academy and got my peace officer's license just like the rest of you. I think that Chris is just trying to get people to get along with each other and network which is the purpose of this site in the first place. Just my two cents.
There's no right way to do a wrong thing
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GLOCK_45_4U
101 posts
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GOOD POST. AND HAVE YOU NOTICED HOW SOME FOLKS ARE JUST THIN SKINNED. THEY WILL MAKE A COMMENT ON SOMETHING YOU POST, WHICH OPENS THEM UP TO BEING COMMENTED ON, AND THEN WHINE ABOUT YOU FIRING BACK. IF YOU DONT LIKE WHAT SOMEONE POSTS, DEAL WITH IT. IF YOU FEEL THAT YOU MUST MAKE SOME SMARTA$$ED COMMENT OR A PERSONAL ATTACK (HOWEVER JOVIAL) BE READY TO TAKE INCOMING FIRE. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY WHAT YOU LIKE ABOUT ME, BUT I HAVE THE RIGHT TO SMACK YOU IF I DONT LIKE IT (YOU OBVIOUSLY CANT SE ME SMILING AS I TYPE THIS, SO I WILL TELL YOU THAT I AM SMILING BECAUSE ITS FUNNY). SAME GOES FOR EVERYONE ELSE. FOR EXAMPLE, IF I TRASH TALK BAD LT, I EXPECT HIM TO GIVE IT TO ME WITH BOTH GUNS BECAUSE HE DOESNT KNOW ME WELL ENOUGH TO KNOW WHETHER OR NOT I'M SERIOUS OR JUST PULLING HIS CHAIN A LITTLE BIT. BUT IF I TRASH TALK DS212, HE LAUGHS (I KNOW BECAUSE HIS DESK IS NEXT TO MINE) AND HE LOOKS FOR HIS CHANCE TO GET ME BACK. THERE IS TRUTH TO WHAT YOU POSTED AND I HOPE THAT IT REACHES THOSE WHO NEED IT MOST.
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QueenWarrior
347 posts
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cowgirl_lieutenant says ...
In reading through these posts, it is just amazing to me how much emotion goes into fighting on these boards. I know that if I was off base on here and it got back to my Sheriff, I would probably be looking at a few days off without pay or maybe even a demotion. This is supposed to be a place to share information and learn from each other. I don't understand the fighting when we are supposed to conduct ourselves in a manner that would not bring discredit upon our department. I come here to get a lot of information for work. I haven't posted much lately because it seems like someone or another wants to throw mud at someone else, LEO or nonLEO. I know some of you will look at my profile and say, she just works the jail. But I went to the police academy and got my peace officer's license just like the rest of you. I think that Chris is just trying to get people to get along with each other and network which is the purpose of this site in the first place. Just my two cents.
I like this post! I like how you think Cowgirl.
~LIVE FOR TODAY. YESTERDAYS GONE. TOMORROW MAY NEVER COME~
~THE GRASS IS NOT GREENER ON THE OTHER SIDE-IT JUST LOOKS BETTER~
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