General Forums >> The Lobby >> Would you submit yours?
Would you submit yours?
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Posted 3 months ago I would like comments on this, please. I find it disturbing. Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns'
The investigation is into the June 8 shooting deaths of Skyla Jade Whitaker, 11, and Taylor Paschal-Placker, 13, who died when they were shot several times on a road about four miles from Weleetka. Authorities say two guns were used in the killings, but they haven't released much information about the weapons until they now confirmed one was a .40-caliber.
They have not yet identified the second type of weapon used.
Authorities said they sent out about 60 letters, and about 40 gun owners voluntarily brought in their weapons to the Okfuskee County Courthouse at Okemah for testing over the weekend.
Brown said those weapons were taken by investigators and test-fired, and the results of those tests now are being evaluated. She said nearly half a dozen former gun owners contacted authorities to identify new owners, and another 15 gun owners did not show up.
Those who participated in a forum on the newspaper website expressed sympathy for the victims and their families, but worried about the maneuver of inspecting privately owned guns without a search warrant or probable cause.
"This is a really sad story. My heart goes out to the families involved," said one participant. "For some reason, though, it bothers me that 60 gun owners were asked to 'voluntarily' relinquish their legally-owned firearms."
Wrote a second, "Since when does Oklahoma have handgun registration? … I seriously hope they catch the vermin responsible for this, but I'm disturbed by the implication that Oklahoma, one of the most free states in the USA, has handgun registration."
Another, identified only as ok sooner and who reported spending time in law enforcement, added, "I would never 'voluntarily submit their weapons for testing.' Get a warrant."
"I'm with ok sooner," said a fourth. "I wouldn’t voluntarily submit my firearms to law enforcement without a warrant, either. This is really starting to bother me. Why ask 60 citizens to do this? Or maybe they're waiting for somebody to refuse to submit 'voluntarily' whereupon they do get a warrant."
"Why don't they just test fire all the .40 cal handguns in Oklahoma? Yeah, that's the ticket," said one person. "I hate to perhaps sound callous about the tragedy, that's not my intent at all, but this is some of the goofiest stuff I've ever heard of."
"What the OSBI stupidly did was ensure that, if the real murderer still has the murder weapon and got one of these letters, he will now WITHOUT DOUBT destroy it POST HASTE," said another.
"Human beings can only interact with one another through two methods: reason or force. If at any point, either party chooses force, the other must either submit or respond with force," warned another participant. "I prefer reason. But I am ready to respond with force. Submission is not an option."
"The issue of private control of firearms in the United States has been a hot topic this year in light of the Washington, D.C., dispute over a complete ban on private handguns. In that case, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that individuals in the United States do have the right to bear arms, although that right can be regulated.
The District of Columbia city council promptly adopted emergency legislation that would replace its handgun ban with a laundry list of regulations and requirements, including several described by the Gun Owners of America as equally unconstitutional to the ban.
Those include a gun license requirement, a ban on semiautomatics, new ballistics requirements, requirements for trigger locks and requirements to keep guns unloaded.
"It's no wonder that the District is awash with lawlessness. The contempt for the law starts in the city council chambers," said GOA Executive Director Larry Pratt.
The Supreme Court ruling was the first definitive statement on the 2nd Amendment in decades. The court said, in Justice Antonin Scalia's majority opinion, the Constitution does not permit "the absolute prohibition of handguns held and used for self-defense in the home."
Scalia was joined by Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Samuel Alito, Anthony Kennedy and Clarence Thomas. Joining Justice John Paul Stevens in dissent were Justices Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David Souter.
The amendment, ratified in 1791, says: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
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| Posted 3 months ago No. No one needs to see them without a warrant. If they cant find sonthing else to go on they should go over what eveidence they have and return to the crime scene if nessary. Romans 13:4 "For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil
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| Posted 3 months ago absolutely not! |
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| Posted 3 months ago ok, maybe I'm naive, but I don't see what's wrong with this...I feel that the person's turning in their guns for testing would do so admirably, eliminating themselves from two vicious murders, and to not do so would make the person look a little guilty. granted, makes the OSBI look kinda lazy by not going out in the field and doing this themselves, but ya gotta start somewhere. |
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| Posted 3 months ago Bring me a warrant first, for anything my gun, searching my car,searching my house absolutely. Pain is weakness leaving the body. Obstacles are what we see when we take our eyes off the goal. |
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| Posted 3 months ago klmorito says ...
It has to do with your constitutional rights and good police work. On the surface it seems like a good idea but in reality the public shoould not have to worry about being suspected of a crime they did not commit. That is why you are Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Also the 5th amendment right aginst self incrimination plays in here. Good question tho. Romans 13:4 "For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil
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| Posted 3 months ago Get a warrant or go piss up a short rope. There is a reason the founding fathers included the 4th Amendment into the Bill of Rights, to protect citizens against unwarranted intrusions into their privacy. Be nice. Be professional. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet. Misery minus me equals humor. I reject your reality and substitute my own. |
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| Posted 3 months ago As police officers, we are expected to stand up for and enforce what is right. This, on the other hand is not right. If I were to take my gun down, no matter how much I want these killer caught, I would clearly be sending a message to those I swore to protect that it is ok every once in a while as long as it benefits the law. Hypocrytical so to speak. If the citizens wish to turn their weapons in for testing, good on ya! Just don't expect me to be at the head of the line, or even in the middle. Ya want my thundersticks, ya better have a warrant! If I have offended anyone, so be it. |
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| Posted 3 months ago I couldn't read the whole thing before I knew how ludicrous it was. Do they REALLY think the bad guys are gonna bring in their guns?
OSBI Agent: Hi, Sir. Allow me to check your weapon. We'll have you out of her momentarily. Murderer: Thanks. I have a dentist appointment and don't want to be late. OSBI Agent: Oh look. Your gun was used to kill the girl. Murderer: Well, sure it was. I knew that. I'm the one that did it. OSBI Agent: Well thank you, sir, for bringing in your gun and solving our case. Murderer: Sure. No problem. Your "invite" was just too compelling and I didn't want to look guilty by not bringing in my gun. OSBI Agent: Ok, sir, turn around and place your hands behind your back. Murderer: But I told you I have a dentist appointment. OSBI Agent: Well, ok, since you were honest enough to bring in your gun, I suppose we can let you go get your teeth cleaned. Just be back by 5 p.m. because that's what time I get off. Thanks. Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. |
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| Posted 3 months ago Nope....Bring a warrant or you are s*it outta luck!!! ~*Sheila*~ "If we ever forget that we're ONE NATION UNDER GOD, then we will be a nation gone under."..... Ronald Reagan |
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| Posted 3 months ago Nope, I wouldn't. Unless there's a warrant involved, they're not getting anything. "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. " |
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| Posted 3 months ago No. KL076 |
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| Posted 3 months ago No. I have rights, too. Wear your vest. Wear your seatbelt. Everyday. |
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| Posted 3 months ago Georgia_Cop says ...
Great Point Georgia!! ~LIVE FOR TODAY. YESTERDAYS GONE. TOMORROW MAY NEVER COME~
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| Posted 3 months ago First of all I doubt if a law abiding gun owner with a registered firearm took part in this tragedy and what type of moron who commited this crime would actually take part. The intelligence of all LEO's has been tossed back to the stone age with this one. |
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| Posted 3 months ago Hell no!!! You can kiss mi ars if you think I'm goin to give my firearms. WARRANT PLEASE KIND SIR!!!! "Amateurs talk hardware. Professionals talk software. It doesn't matter what's in your hand or between your legs. It matters what's in your heart and in your head." - Lt. Col. Dave Grossman |
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| Posted 3 months ago The great thing about dumb criminals is that they are dumb, thus helping with job security for those in law enforcement. So, let's say I live in the area and have a .40 caliber pistol registered. I have nothing to hide but I'm not interested in being excluded from the list of 'suspects' simply because of the gun I own. Am I going to take it in for testing? Nope. I don't care if my name is on the long list of gun owners, really. However, some dipshit will put a scratch on the inside of his barrel and then take it in for testing, thinking the rifling has been changed, when in fact the rifling will remain the same. This 'order' if you will, is purely voluntary for those who are concerned about being on the long list. But, it is worded somewhat as an order, thus making some folks feel like it's lawful, when it's only a request. This is similar to stopping and chatting with someone walking down the street. As a cop in uniform there's nothing that says you can't say hi to folks and ask how they are doing, but those folks don't have to stop and chat or even answer. They can just keep on walking. |
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| Posted 3 months ago TommyO, I think you missed the threat that people who oh, so politely decline this generous invitation will be treated as likely suspects. Can you say deprivaiton of rights under color of law? Using intimidation and threats to get honest citizens to give up civil rights is just a bit illegal. Title 18, U.S.C., Section 242 Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law This statute makes it a crime for any person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom to willfully deprive or cause to be deprived from any person those rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution and laws of the U.S. |
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| Posted 3 months ago Uh... Let me see if I can say this correctly... "No Warrant... Then Uh H*ll NO you can't inspect my weapons!" Yeah I got it right... Most people respect the Badge... Everyone respects the gun... |
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| Posted 3 months ago KSP494 says ...
+1 The thing about this is say they do bring in the gun because they think it's the right thing to do. Are they going to keep a balistic record for the weapon on file?
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| Posted 3 months ago Ok, I am from Oklahoma, several years ago 2 girls disappeared from the town where I was from, Lauren Bible & Ashley Freeman, guess who took over the case, OSBI. Long story short, they blammed everyone and everything, the case went nowhere fast. The girls are still missing. The OSBI should actually do things right this time. They have beat around the bush for years. To me having people submit their weapons for a balistics check is just the LAZY ASS way they always do things. No offense to anyone who is a supporter of the OSBI, but in all honesty, they gave up on my friends. Why should the get any favors???? SOONER BORN, SOONER BRED, SOONER FAN UNTIL I'M DEAD |
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| Posted 3 months ago BP348 says ...
I would imagine they would. This could be a round about way for them to catch up on the ballistic files for weapons that never had one to begin with. "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. " |
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| Posted 3 months ago subdjoe says ...
Joe, I didn't miss that part. I just don't take it as seriously as some of you might. I guess it's a bit like getting stopped for a traffic violation and having the cop ask to search the car. No, I wouldn't do that and yes, the officer would have to get a warrant, but having done nothing wrong and not having contraband I wouldn't care. Chances are good the cop would add some charges to the ticket, or whatever, but wouldn't likely tow the car and get a warrant. We both know there is that annoying little thing called probable cause for the search. Anyway, I wouldn't care if they had me listed as a 'likely suspect' simply because I own that caliber of weapon. I'm sure along the way I have been on someone's suspect list anyway, due to some association or another. Thanks for the cite, however. I will keep it in my 'what if' folder.
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| Posted 3 months ago As was previously stated, criminals are not going to abide by this, THEY ARE CRIMINALS ok they just shot somebody do you think they are just going to walk the murder weapon in to the police? Not likely. It's just like CCDWs I'm not so worried about the guy with a CCDW, I'm worried about the ones without. Pain is weakness leaving the body. Obstacles are what we see when we take our eyes off the goal. |
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| Posted 3 months ago ThommyO wrote: "Joe, I didn't miss that part. I just don't take it as seriously as some of you might. I guess it's a bit like getting stopped for a traffic violation and having the cop ask to search the car." I admit, I are VERY firm in my conviction that the limits the Constituiton and Bill of Rights put on the State and its agents MUST be adhered to by the State. The Constitution is, after all, the contract between We the People and the State, and if the State unilaterally breaks that contract, our society will not survive. And we are seening way too many encroachments on our enumerated rights. I disagree with you comparison. The cop who asks to search during a stop is not threatening to treat you like a suspect. Standard answer to a LEO who asks if he may (X), without cause or warrant is "No thank you Officer' and to the "Well, you know how that makes you look, don't you?" it's "Yes, Officer, like an honest citizen who supports the Constitution."
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| Posted 3 months ago That's what I love about this country, freedom of choice, and I choose to make anyone get a warrant if they are going to inconvenience me. Pain is weakness leaving the body. Obstacles are what we see when we take our eyes off the goal. |
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| Posted 3 months ago No frickin' way. What happened to good police work and probable cause? The achievements of an organization are the results of the combined effort of each individual.
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| Posted 3 months ago No warrent? Why no thanks, but don't worry this letter is going to make a nice fire starter. It was once said the way to understand men is to understand their basic principles. 1 All men need to feel they are better than at least one other person. 2 Man naturally accumulates objects. 3 Man naturally feels his objects maybe less superior than his neighbors. 4 Men are naturally driven to improve his position in comparison to what he knows about others. |
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| Posted 3 months ago It would be nice to see a registry of all new guns/ballistics data (IE close-up photos of firing pin strikes on casings... rifling etc.) on an NCIC -type database. Have this info on file before the gun is purchased. You have a choice whether you want to buy the firearm... not yours until you purchase it. Firearms in this state aren't even required to be registered at all. |
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| Posted 3 months ago Actually, I think everyone is really missing the whole point of all the letter. That is purely a "feel good" move to appease the people of Weleetka and at least make them think the case is progressing. There is a person of interest that the police have been looking for since the day of the murders. The OSBI and local law enforcement have combed the crime scene numerous times and have gathered lots of evidence, which is now being analyzed. It should be noted that the town of Weleetka had a population of 1,014 as of the 2000 census and only comprises .07 square miles. The median income for a household in the town was $19,141, and the median income for a family was $26,917. The citizens are mostly farming people and are reported as being highly religious. They are scared and grasping for any shred of hope. The OSBI asking people to bring in their firearms is no different than other agencies requesting people to submit to voluntary DNA swab testing. (The letter does "suggest" they bring the guns in for "voluntary" testing.) Lots of agencies have done that over the years and I don't recall hearing much of a hue and cry about it, but from a die-hard few. If people don't wish to cooperate, they don't have to. The testing results are used for this case only and are supposed to be destroyed afterward, not kept "on file." People may remain on a suspect list if they don't voluntarily bring in their weapon, but failure to cooperate alone would not be enough to get a search warrant in any court. And Oklahoma does not require firearms to be registered. From my understanding, the information as to the owners of the .40 caliber weapons came from the paperwork filed in association with purchases (Thank you, Brady Bill), as well as from previous owners who sold their guns. To cfrostexasgirl: the OSBI has not given up on Lauria Bible or Ashley Freeman, but does believe them to be deceased. In 2005, convicted killer Jeremy Bryan Jones, of Miami, OK, who is wanted for questioning in connection with seven murders in Oklahoma, reportedly confessed that he was responsible for the December 1999 slayings of Danny and Kathy Freeman of Welch, their daughter, Ashley Freeman, and her friend, Lauria Bible, both 16. Jones claimed at the time that he dumped the girls' bodies down a mine shaft in Galena, KS, although he later recanted as to the location of the bodies. Jones is currently incarcerated in Alabama. Jones was sentenced to death in Alabama for the rape and murder of a woman there. He also is charged in the deaths of Amanda Greenwell, 16, in Douglasville, Ga., and Katherine Collins, 45, of New Orleans. Authorities in Alabama said that Jones had confessed to at least 12 slayings in four other states, including Oklahoma, and could be linked to four other killings. In addition to the Freeman murders and the disappearance of the two girls, Jones is wanted for questioning in Oklahoma in connection with the Feb. 21, 1996, deaths of David Oakley, 38, and Doris Harris, 41, in Afton; and the Sept. 11, 1999, slaying of Justin Dee Hutchings, 19, of Picher. Oklahoma authorities said it might take years to return Jones to the state for prosecution, noting that other states want him, as well. Still, authorities said they are anxious to return Jones to Oklahoma so that perhaps he can lead them to the bodies of the two missing girls |
