PoliceLink

Sea of gun toters? WTF? Sounds like an anti-gun term. If I'm wrong, sorry 'bout dat.

I'm all for it. The vast majority of gun owners are polite, honest and not afraid to say they have a firearm in the vehicle or on their person.

I have arrested and interviewed alot of burglars and theft suspects. Towards the end of the interview, I always ask about what he/she would do if a gun owner caught them before the police arrived. Most say that is their BIGGEST concern of doing a "job". One guy was caught in a barn and held by the landowner at gun point. When we arrived, the landowner walked towards  my partners and I  with a big smile on his face. He told us "The thieving bastard in in the barn, I heard the guy shi* himself when I racked the shotgun " I, senior officer,  DID NOT TRANSPORT!

God bless the Second Amendment!

I have not been on in a while,I was wrong about some of you. this post does show respect for the folks you protect. My personel rule on this subject has always been----Dont ever pull it if your MAD, Only pull it if yuor SCARED!!!! Anyway,Thanks for the positive attitude on this subject.

I think an armed citizen is a great deterrent to crime. the numbers show that crime drops significantly in States who loosen concealled carry laws. As a Correctional Officer I don't have to deal with the general public in my day to day duties, but I have been involved in recovery operations for escaped inmates. During these operations I have been approached by citizens who are licensed to carry. Most of them are just curious and ask questions. I've never had one interfere with an operations in any way. It makes me feel good in the back of my mind, that if we cannot recapture the inmates immediately at least the general public can defend themselves in our absence until we do.

Damn,  I like the responses in this thread!  You hear the chiefs, sheriffs, and public affairs/information officers parroting the PC crap about how honest citizens don't need guns, shouldn't have guns, and should rely on the police to protect them.  I love the cop on the street take on it. 

subdjoe says ...

Damn,  I like the responses in this thread!  You hear the chiefs, sheriffs, and public affairs/information officers parroting the PC crap about how honest citizens don't need guns, shouldn't have guns, and should rely on the police to protect them.  I love the cop on the street take on it. 

Hey I live in KY, everyone has a gun collection and has been shooting since they crawled. Like I said in my post, the guy with the permit does not concern me he's trying to abide by the law, and less likely to be a threat than the guy that doesn't go get a permit.

tgunning says ...

A civillian packing a gun can be both good an bad. Take the New Life Church shootings in Colorado Springs, Colorado last December. Jeanne Assam was an armed security guard, and she shot the gunman, causing him to commit suicide. She probably save a  bunch of lives.

However, a civillian carrying a gun could be disarmed by a thug, and the thug could use it in a crime.

This issue depends on how you want to look at it.

This is why everyone who carries a gun needs to take classes

tgunning says ...

A civillian packing a gun can be both good an bad. Take the New Life Church shootings in Colorado Springs, Colorado last December. Jeanne Assam was an armed security guard, and she shot the gunman, causing him to commit suicide. She probably save a  bunch of lives.

However, a civillian carrying a gun could be disarmed by a thug, and the thug could use it in a crime.

This issue depends on how you want to look at it.

 

I want to start by saying this is a valid point, but if you look at it, they could do the same to us.

KSP494 says ...

subdjoe says ...

Damn,  I like the responses in this thread!  You hear the chiefs, sheriffs, and public affairs/information officers parroting the PC crap about how honest citizens don't need guns, shouldn't have guns, and should rely on the police to protect them.  I love the cop on the street take on it. 

Hey I live in KY, everyone has a gun collection and has been shooting since they crawled. Like I said in my post, the guy with the permit does not concern me he's trying to abide by the law, and less likely to be a threat than the guy that doesn't go get a permit.

Yeah, and I live in California.  But, I just moved to a county were the Sheriff is pretty good about issuing CCWs.  I don't have a lot of guns, between my wife and I only about two dozen.  

 A few years ago I asked my dad when he started teaching me how to shoot, he said "About when you started walking."  He was from Rockcastle Co. KY originally.  Mustered out of the Corps in 1947 from Camp Pendelton, decided he liked it in CA better. 

TGUNNING wrote: "However, a civillian carrying a gun could be disarmed by a thug, and the thug could use it in a crime.

And a cop carrying a gun could be diarmed by a thug, and the thug could use it in a crime.  Search this site and you can find a few mentions of this happening. 

The other side of the coin is that a non-LEO citizen (remember, LEOs are technically civilians) carrying a gun can bail a cop out of a bad situation.  I think it was about 6 or 8 years ago up around Seattle a woman was on her way home from the range.  Per the law, she had her pistol unloaded, and cased in her trunk.  She saw on the side of the road a naked guy beating the snot out of a cop.  She stopped, opened her trunk, opened the case, loaded the gun, and went to assist.  By that time the wacko had knocked the cop out, taken his gun, shot the cop and taken off.  Would have been nice if she could have just stopped, grabbed her gun, and gone to assist. 

Or this:  http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=43260&catid=2  Wouldn't it have been nice if some of the first responders (honest citizens) had been allowed to carry? 

Sorry, that line by Tgunning hit several of my hot buttons.  First, that somehow honest citizens who carry will at some point have their guns taken from them by  thugs, with the implication that it never happens to cops.  Second,  the false "civilian"/cop distinction.  While many LEOs have been in the military, and may be in the Guard or Reserves, they too are civilians (excepting those in the Guard or Reserve).  Yes, many police agencies are now de facto para-military municipal or county forces.  But they are still civilians. From wikipedia:  A civilian under international humanitarian law is a person who is not a member of his or her country's armed forces. The term is also often used colloquially to refer to people who are not members of a particular profession or occupation, especially by law enforcement agencies, which often use rank structures similar to those of military units.  I understand the urge to call non-LEOs civilians, but I feel it sets up yet another layer of "us vs. them" that isn't needed. 

Not to mention that one of the lines of reasoning that the antis use to push victim disarmament is that the guns will always be taken from them by the thugs and used against them. 

bruceg1220 says ...

I am a former  LEO having lived in New Hampshire, was  awarded a concealed weapon license issued by the state which saved my life.  Without getting into the details of the incident would like to see federal legislature for retired and/or properly authorized former LEO's  to carry with the HOPE to save an innocent life. 

Bruce. Please read the 'Terms of Use.' Click the link at the bottom of the page. You need to post an introduction before making a post in a topic such as this one.

Being from West Virginia I assume everyone I meet has a firearm and knows how to use it.  I've had more than one occassion where an armed citizen has held the badguy at gunpoint awaiting my arrival.  In both the occassions I knew going in that the good guy had the drop on the bad guy.  In both situations the good guy unloaded his weapon and layed it on the ground when I approached.  These were both old farmers who used shotguns to stop individuals who was on the property stealing.  Made for an easy collar.  I've encountered armed citizens on traffic stops many times.  No problem.   Let me know you're legally packing so there are no surprises and all will be OK.  I think that the more people who arm themselves and take the time to train with the weapon the better.

As a side not a local law firm puts on an annual public safety picnic.  All law enforcement and public safety persons volunteer fire fighters and EMS as well as paid fire fighters and EMS are invited along with thier families.  The picnic is at a local LE training center and one of the events is the shooting simulator.  Anyone who signs up gets to go through a shoot/don't shoot senerio at the simulator and they also have team events.  The last year that I participated I came in second in the team and individual events.  CIVILIANS came in first.  We have some VERY GOOD civilian shooters out there with some excellent training and backrounds. 

I say any the more armed good guys the better.

I love my CCW and hope the rumors in LA aren't true....about my out of state CCW (TN) not transferrring here.  When you aren't familiar with a city and its happenings, I think it's good to be able to carry, esp when you've been certified to do so.  I heard a story back home that is always relevant to citizens carrying:

In Kennesaw, GA (north of ATL) the crime was rising at an alarming rate, even higher than in the city of ATL.  They passed a law that EVERY able/qualifying citizen HAD TO carry/own a gun...the crime plummeted and it worked beautifully.  Criminals face an unexpected surprise when everyday citizens are able to protect themselves...it seems like it makes them think twice!   LOL...Good stuff but a true story too!

When a citizen takes the necessary classes and applies for a concealed carry license, they have already demonstrated that they support law enforcement and are going to abide by the laws.  Such people are no threat to law enforcement, and in actuality, are often a great help.  It is the person who starts out by breaking the law that we have to worry about.  They have already demonstrated a refusal to obey the law and a propensity to continue to break any law they wish to.  This is a tremendous difference.  One is a citizen, the other a criminal.

subjoe said:  "What if the law is unconstitutional or otherwise unreasonable?  If an otherwise honest and upright citizen is only breaking the draconian and despotic laws that prevent him from exercising his RKBA, I still see no significant problem.  One of the concepts that the framers pushed was that it is almost a duty of We the People to oppose/ignore illegal laws. "

This is a really difficult issue.  We are sworn to uphold the Constitution, yet often local laws conflict with what we believe the framers of the document intended.  However, even though we may be convinced of what is correct, only a judge may interpret the laws.  So, discression is one of the most important things about being a cop, and should be used wisely.  Except in the cases of "shall arrest" statutes, you can choose to look the other way if life and property are not in danger.  For example, while Missouri previously did not allow concealed weapons, officers often ignored businessmen carrying guns on their way to drop the day's receipts at the bank, and in the country, just about everybody has a gun in their pickup and rural deputies/cops just ignore the fact, unless they have reason to believe their safety is at risk.  I have no desire to arrest a citizen who has a darn good reason for violating a law that puts them in danger.  Must I arrest a person without a CCW permit? No, but depending on the situation, I might.  In fact, since carry permits are now fairly easy to get, I'd be more likely to arrest someone that didn't have the proper permit than before the law was passed.

In reference to your "hypothetical" scenario.  I'd rather give the guy a pat on the back than a ticket or arrest him.  It is a simple matter of understanding that public safety outweighs legal requirements of carrying a gun.  I would, however, in the strongest terms possible, remind the citizen that he has broken the law and should remedy the lack of permit to avoid future troubles.

subjoe, my statement is not overbroad.  I am simply stating what I know to be true.  And an officer must use their personal discretion in each and every contact with the public.  I will say that there are a lot of indicators of a citizen's intent.  For example, the bad guys seldom invest in a holster, preferring waistband "Mexican carry" to proper holsters.  So an officer can determine that a man with a good holster for their gun is probably a law-abiding citizen, whereas a gun in the waistband or pocket is an indication that they are not a good citizen.

I am a student of the writings of our Founding Fathers and I know what they intended the 2nd Amendment to be.  Unfortunately, we live with a legal system, not a justice system.  Law does not equal justice, as you well know.  But we must work within the system, and we are sworn to do so.  We do what we can to alleviate stupidity in the law, but we can not selectively enforce the law at will.  We have discretion, but again, it must be used carefully.  We serve at the will of the people, and sometimes the people are nothing more than sheep, being herded by barking dogs (usually the socialist media) that control them through imagined fears of what could be.  True courage is seldom seen today, and less seldom rewarded by society.

I happen to be a Chief and admittedly, I spend a lot more time in the office than on the street but still, I do support law abiding citizens going armed. In fact the best piece of advice I have heard to date about the upcoming election was actually given as a critisism. "cling to your guns and religion"!

I think that we should always look to the past when examining current issues.  

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764. That was 244 years ago. -Thomas Jefferson