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With the upcoming election we have been discussing this very topic in my adult Sunday School class at church.  Even there I am disturbed by Christians who try to water down the effects that the Bible and faith had on our forefathers and their writings.  Of course these are generally the same people who try to combine evolution and creation.  Just remember " if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land." 2Chron 7:14 

Here is the crux of their "argument":  They say that becuase the clergy were the most educated and had a forum for speech anyone who wanted a message "delivered" would ask the clergy to speak on the matter, politial or not.  Consequently, the clergy would then take the topic and search for verses in the bible to support the message they were discussing.  So the naysayers in my class say that the Bible was only used because of thses circumstances.  I figure that's one way to look at it, but I say our God is a great God and he can use ANY means to get His Word where it needs to be!

  I have argued for years you can not seperate church and state. It is blind faith that has brought many of our histories great leaders together to fight against the wicked. Politicians seem to be more out for numero uno anymore. Many of our rights and freedoms came from the thought that we need to have good moral character and ethics and the belief that we can do good. Where do we get the ideals of morals and ethics from? Religion!

Lightningfastfords says ...

God , The alpha the omega , the beging and the end  amen,

BUMP!!!!!!!!

smoeller says ...

  I have argued for years you can not seperate church and state. !

The founding fathers never said anything about the sepretation of church and state.  They just said there shall be no nation church, as the English had the church of England thus there was no freedom to seek a different church which taught things differently.  So we have all kinds of christian churchs in this nation, as it should be.  It is not a church that saves you.  It is the Lord Jesus Christ.  Most all the chruchs in the US agree on that one doctrine.

ALH says ...

smoeller says ...

  I have argued for years you can not seperate church and state. !

The founding fathers never said anything about the sepretation of church and state.  They just said there shall be no nation church, as the English had the church of England thus there was no freedom to seek a different church which taught things differently.  So we have all kinds of christian churchs in this nation, as it should be.  It is not a church that saves you.  It is the Lord Jesus Christ.  Most all the chruchs in the US agree on that one doctrine.

The term "separation of church and state" does not exist in the Constitution.  Its origin is in a letter written by President T. Jefferson to the elders of the Baptist church in Danbury, Connecticut.  The letter was written to assure them  that the government would NOT form a national church.  At this time in the history of our nation is was a common practice to circulate written sermons between churches.  Jefferson is quoting from one such sermon, which was well-known by the Danbury church.  He is referring to a portion of the sermon which states that the government has no business telling a church what to believe or how to operate, and that there should be a "wall of separation" between church and state.  However, the sermon goes on to say that the church should always influence government, to keep it from abusing the rights and liberties of the people.  So, as in the sermon, Jefferson is saying that the wall only goes one way:  Keeping government out of religion, but allowing religion in government. 

ccso8462 says ...

ALH says ...

smoeller says ...

  I have argued for years you can not seperate church and state. !

The founding fathers never said anything about the sepretation of church and state.  They just said there shall be no nation church, as the English had the church of England thus there was no freedom to seek a different church which taught things differently.  So we have all kinds of christian churchs in this nation, as it should be.  It is not a church that saves you.  It is the Lord Jesus Christ.  Most all the chruchs in the US agree on that one doctrine.

The term "separation of church and state" does not exist in the Constitution.  Its origin is in a letter written by President T. Jefferson to the elders of the Baptist church in Danbury, Connecticut.  The letter was written to assure them  that the government would NOT form a national church.  At this time in the history of our nation is was a common practice to circulate written sermons between churches.  Jefferson is quoting from one such sermon, which was well-known by the Danbury church.  He is referring to a portion of the sermon which states that the government has no business telling a church what to believe or how to operate, and that there should be a "wall of separation" between church and state.  However, the sermon goes on to say that the church should always influence government, to keep it from abusing the rights and liberties of the people.  So, as in the sermon, Jefferson is saying that the wall only goes one way:  Keeping government out of religion, but allowing religion in government. 

Quite well researched.  I get so mad at the people who spout out things and do not understand what they are talking about.  They change the meaning of the whole thing to fit the way they want it.

smoeller says ...

I appreciate all the responses to what I said, I have actually learned somethings very usefull here. These I believe are reasons we should have better history lessons, I never heard any of this information anywhere and would not have even known where to start to find it. It goes to show when you hear only part of a saying or speech or anything else, and you try and use it in a educational way you just end up looking a little bit ignorant.

Probably the reason I know anything about the real history of the US is because we chose to home school our kids.  It forced me to look deeper into history, science, philosphy, etc.  For all that we lost by living only on one income, paying school taxes and then spending more money for our kids books and curriculum, and taking flak from all quarters about our decision, what we gained is immeasurable, both for the kids and for my wife and I.

Howdy Folks,

I must agree that I can't believe people who call themselves Christian will vote for Obama.  This disgusting man approves of abortion in all cases.  Even partial birth abortion, the most vile and disgusting form there is.   Christians need to wake up and remember what they have been taught from the Bible.  How can any good Christian support such a person?   Please tell me!   Because I cannot understand how a Christian could live with themselves by voting for someone who says it's alright to abort children.  And look at that so called "pastor" whose church he attended.  How can anyone call that person a "Christian" clergyman?  Anyone who does is a hypocrite and disgrace to their religion.   I pray to God that John McCain and Sarah Palin are elected as our President and Vice President.   Because if they are not, our great nation will  fall further into darkness and despair. 

The Founding Fathers are probably turning in their graves at what this country has become!   We can not stand by and surrender our morals and values to the secularists and modernists who want to destroy our Christian way of life.   We are not deafeated as long as we stand together and stay strong and fight for what is RIGHT and GOOD in our nation.   I don't care if you're Roman Catholic, Orthodox Catholic, or Protestant!   Stand together as one and with one voice declare to all the world that we Americans still believe in the same principles and traditions that our Founding Fathers gave us.  God, Country, Freedom, Duty and Honor!

rolbsned65 says ...

tjlato says ...

With the upcoming election we have been discussing this very topic in my adult Sunday School class at church.  Even there I am disturbed by Christians who try to water down the effects that the Bible and faith had on our forefathers and their writings.  Of course these are generally the same people who try to combine evolution and creation.  Just remember " if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land." 2Chron 7:14 

I can't believe the number of people that call themselves christians who want to vote for Obama, and feel there is no conflict of interest. I vote for the most conservative candidate because their values "or supposed values" align with mine. I don't understand how anyone could read the Consitution and NOT see the influence of the bible it. Of coarse you would have had to read the bible to notice!! 

tjlato says ...

First of all, PRAY!!!!  Secondly, vote for the hero who risked his life for the innocent, not the man who is willing to take the life of the innocent...

AMEN... You said it!!!    "BUMP"

didnt god say "my kingdom is not of this world"????? And the word god doesnt appear anywhere in the constitution. And only once in the Declaration of Independence

ccso8462 says ...

rickm says ...

didnt god say "my kingdom is not of this world"????? And the word god doesnt appear anywhere in the constitution. And only once in the Declaration of Independence

God said that through the person of Jesus.  And the word God does not appear in the Constitution because the Founding Fathers usually referred to Him and His actions as "Providence"  In the FF's personal writings and comments on their intent when creating the government, it is often that their beliefs were more clearly stated.  I find that when studying any period in history, it is vitally important to research the common usage of the language at the time.  Just try reading Shakespeare without some understanding of English as it was spoken during his life.  I purchased an 1826 Webster's dictionary to assist in my studies and have found it very enlightening and informative concerning this nation's beginnings.  These dictionaries are readily available and very popular among home schooling families and constitutional scholars today.

It is pleasure to read your post.  It is well thought out and to the point.