Deputy's Observations: Concealed Carry

Frank Hinkle - Nov 01 2007

: Back in the day I carried an S&W 4” Model 19 with an Airweight Chief Special for backup, but for tactical assignments I added a Government Model .45 under my chill-chaser. I carried an extra magazine for it on the tanker-style shoulder holster.; Click to enlarge

There is much discussion in law enforcement circles and among civilians with concealed carry permits about the best way to carry their weapons and which weapons to carry.

This is a subject that I’ve spent a lot of time experimenting with myself during my law enforcement career, and I’m going to attempt to share some of my own experiences with you, hopefully to save you some time, trouble and money.

To start with, what is “concealed carry”? My department’s Policy & Procedure manual spelled it out pretty succinctly; the off-duty weapon was to be concealed from view at all times while being worn. Standing upright and stretching, bending over, seated; it was not to be visible to the passerby. From personal experience and my own research I have to agree with that statement. As others have said, there’s nothing that says, “Kill me” more than revealing a concealed weapon during a robbery or other violent encounter. If the bad guy is going to see your weapon, it should be while you are pointing it at him from a position of advantage and cover, not as you are lying on the floor of a bank.

Next, with my particular stocky frame I can conceal a howitzer, but is it accessible? I’ve seen different concealment rigs that just didn’t fit me because I could not access the weapon quickly enough or without getting half undressed. I’m not kidding. I had a really good concealment holster that put a 2” revolver on my calf inside the top of my boot. But I couldn’t get my pant leg up high enough over my stocky calves to draw my weapon. In a hurry I was better off dropping my pants to get to it but that led to other tactical problems. I sold that holster to a guy with a different body type than me, and he loved it. The holster has to be practical and accessible.

My department held us to the same standard when we carried a second firearm on duty: it was to remain concealed. Over the years I carried everything from a palm sized .25ACP auto to 2” .38 revolvers, compact .380 autos, to a full-sized 1911 .45ACP. In tactical situations I wore a tanker style shoulder holster for my .45 and put a chill-chaser on over it. It might be 100 degrees out but I had the weapon that I wanted to carry and it was concealed. I had met my department’s regulations. I looked like a dork and I might pass out from the heat, but I was in compliance and I was prepared.

Something else to be discussed here are the terms “backup” or “2nd gun” and “hideout weapon.” To my thinking a backup or 2nd gun fit one tactical niche, while a hideout gun is slightly different. There have been cases where an officer’s side arm has jammed or run out of ammunition and he had resorted to his 2nd weapon to finish the engagement. That is a situation that we should train for and prepare for. I had a friend who was at his department qualification course when his sidearm malfunctioned. He did not stop and put up his hand and call “alibi.” He holstered his weapon, drew his backup weapon from his ankle and finished that stage of the course. And then he continued the qualification shoot with his 2” revolver, just like he’d finish it in the field. When it came time to reload he opened his speedloaders inside the pouches and then reloaded his 5-shot revolver out of the pouches. That is the mindset of an officer who is going to win fights. And nobody told him how to reload; he figured it out right there how to do it. That’s the guy that I want covering me; calm, thinking and resourceful.

Additional Resources

But to me, carrying a “hideout” weapon is in preparation for an Onion Field event. An officer is aware that he might be taken hostage and searched, and wants to arm himself for that possibility. We’ve all seen the movies where that situation happens and the bad guys take the officer’s backup weapon off of his ankle. The bad guys watch movies too, usually when they are up at state prison, aka “the gladiator school.” To my mind that’s where the difference in these weapons comes into play. To me, a hideout weapon is small enough and concealed well enough to be missed in a crook’s initial pat down of the hostage officer. I carried a .25ACP automatic in a wallet holster in my back pocket, and I practiced pulling it out and shooting it with my left (weak) hand, because that fit the design of the holster. The officer above carried a hideout knife with an armor piercing tanto point. His knife didn’t have the range of my .25 auto, but it had far greater penetration and never “ran dry.”

So when a police administrator berates an officer for carrying three weapons as being “paranoid,” he is showing his lack of understanding for the officer’s mindset and level of preparedness. He is also demonstrating that he is no longer a warrior, if he ever was one. My way around that was to try to comply with the Department regulations while still making my safety my primary concern.

The method of carrying is as important as the choice of weapon. And we will discuss that further in my next article. But let me cut to the chase and save us all some time; I have easily concealed not only a full sized 1911 .45 ACP pistol, but handcuffs, extra ammunition AND a 2” revolver and extra ammunition for it, a sap and a mini-flashlight underneath my clothing. At times I had so much equipment on my belt and inside my pants pockets that I had to wear suspenders to hold it all up. But it was concealed and at the time I felt that I needed all of it.

The point that I am trying to make is that you should not let your style of dress dictate how you carry or conceal your weapon. Decide what weapon you are going to carry and dress accordingly to conceal it. How fashionable you look will not save your life if you wander into harm’s way, but your equipment and training will.

Stay safe, and stay alert.

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lynettesman

3 months ago

14 comments

Absolutly right my friend. I hear many police and P.S.'s announce in the roll call that they don't carry a second because it's hard to conceal it well. Then they go on to announce that they some times don't carry of duty. I have shook my head in wonder and silently hoped that they never are my partner. When I jump and find a gun in my face I want somebody there that remembered to put his pants on. If you know what I mean. Another great write...
chaplain1

6 months ago

2 comments

Right on! M.C. Mann
gham

8 months ago

2 comments

Great piece of advise...especially for newer officers! I only have three years in and this opened my eyes to what I should carry off duty.
enforcement

8 months ago

4 comments

Carrying concealed is one thing, but, like sq320ret asked was how to carry under HR218. I was asking the same question in different forums and not getting an answer. I retired with 33 years LE experience and now can't be trusted to carry unless we all qualify with the weapon according to HR218. I had found that no agency wants the liability of qualifing a retired officer to carry. The HR218 law doesn't help retirees.
jdevino

8 months ago

0 comments

If you are a large framed fellow, then you can certainly get away with that much firepower under wraps. However, as an agent that primarily does protective services, and whose size is 5' 6" and 165 lbs, I am only able to coceal my duty weapon, and non-lethal weapons, handcuffs, etc. In terms of civilians, retired LE, etc., there is a great deal of concealed weaponry out there. I think we are going to see more and more civilian shootings using lawfully approved concealed weapons.
sgtjtbull

8 months ago

0 comments

All well and good, as far as off duty you can dictate what type or style of clothing you wear. On duty, you are bound by the standards set by your department. Plain clothed officers are also bound, but not as tightly. I like to carry a North American Arms .22mag in my pocket, like a pocket knife. It's a little harder to get to, but I always have it. That's the important thing. Even a .45 on the table at home isn't going to do you any good. Stay safe.
DetectiveNorth

8 months ago

0 comments

Awesome article; my agency has always allowed back up guns but just recently allowed the following Permitted On Duty “hide-out” weapons: Beretta model 21 Bobcat in 22 and 25 caliber, North American Arms (Factory Direct) Provo, Utah Models: Guardian series (semi-auto pistols). Revolvers model NAA-22M/ Black Widow 2” only/ NAA-BW-M/NAA-MM- M/NAA-MM-C
losr13

8 months ago

0 comments

No matter what be prepared at all costs , even at the expense of your fashion sense.
PETE114

8 months ago

34 comments

Great article. Still like having a revolver as a back-up gun. If carrying an automatic, better train shooting weak hand only or off hip/canted to make sure the gun will not malfunction. Not all shootings will allow one to use both hands or the opportunity to use your sights (point shooting). Always make it a habit checking your back-up every once in a while. Lint, sweat, and dust can foul up the gun due to it being covered under some type of clothing. Stay safe !
ncshpg344

8 months ago

0 comments

rgdixon4546, I carry a glock model 33 as a backup on my ankle. the model 33 b/c the ammo is the same as my duty so it's interchangeable if my duty weapon goes down. Any of the "baby glocks" are reliable backups. The Smith&Wesson airweights are good reliable backups also. If u r looking for something to also carry off duty that is easily concealed, i would recommend a KEL-TEC P3AT. It's a small, compact .380 w/ a 6 rnd mag.
rgdixon4546

8 months ago

0 comments

AMT went out of business years ago. I still have a .380. Recent trip to gun store revealed several poor quality guns. Anyone have recommendations for good backup?
chaplain1

8 months ago

2 comments

Right on!
acey612

8 months ago

18 comments

Great Topic
BamaCop307

8 months ago

5 comments

I had become complacent and not even carried an off duty but I have now started again..so this article can serve as a reminder that it is a good idea to have an off duty weapon "just in case"!!!
deputybrown2003

8 months ago

0 comments

Good idea for keeping your brothers and sisters safe
deputybrown2003

8 months ago

0 comments

Good idea for keeping your brothers and sisters safe
ke6kzr

8 months ago

0 comments

Yeah. Always look out for number one.
ouellette

8 months ago

0 comments

You never know when you will need it. Great Article!
asaenz1

8 months ago

0 comments

I couldn't agree with you more. Good article. "To all my Brothers of the Badge, be safe"
asaenz1

8 months ago

0 comments

I couldn't agree with you more. Good article. "To all my Brothers of the Badge, be safe"
asaenz1

8 months ago

0 comments

I couldn't agree with you more. Good article. "To all my Brothers of the Badge, be safe"
Buzzmeister

8 months ago

0 comments

Very good article. Thanks for the good advice. 1 once of common sense, is worth a pound of "Awe S--t".
amproandy

8 months ago

0 comments

Good, practical, logical information. There are definate situations when " situational adjustments" are required, however, in theory and put in practice as closely as possible, "on the money".
bobfox321

8 months ago

0 comments

I like others have tried many alternatives. I found the best one for me. This holster was of course created by a retired officer. Saw this at the annual California Gang Investigators Association at the annual conference in Anaheim. I use the PagerPal holster. It works in a suit, duty uniform, jeans or shorts. It allows me to run and sit and if you practice can even be drawn whilst sitting. Takes a little practice but it works flawlessly. I do not own stock I am just highly suggesting that you check it out on your own. Stopped looking once I bought this one: https://www.pagerpal.com/cart/default.asp Remember the one I bought was the PagerPal but there are other models i think. I use mine with cell phone accessory not the pager option.
sq320ret

8 months ago

0 comments

I agree the best concealed weapon is a concealed weapon. The real qustion our members and readers want to know is how to carry concealed in every state under 218. I challenge you to athoritively answer this question for all in the nation of law enforcement. Maybe Police Link can compile a state by state resource on this issue.
bsibley

8 months ago

0 comments

Good informative article. As a former police officer and now a prosecutor there are some key points to focus on when making the dedcision to carry more than the duty issued weapon. Always remember, when the dust clears the legal Monday morning quarterbacks will be scrutinizing every move. First for your own survival, make sure that the your weapons are secure as well as accessible to ONLY you not a perp in the event you end up in a close arm struggle. I have picked up another officer's handgun that shook loose during a foot chase because it wasn't secured porperly. Second, make sure you are PROFICIENT in drawing and using the second before you need it. Third, as with your service weapon, you are accountable for every round you fire so choose the weapon and firepower appropriately. The goal is to go home to your family after each and every shift and that includes being prepared before, during and after any violent altercation.
gmcretz

8 months ago

11 comments

Great article! I carried concealed while I was assigned to one of the SEAL teams at Little Creek, VA. It was a written directive by the Commanding Officer and sanctioned by the Squadron Commander, those were 2 military men who still have the warrior mentality. TX also shows who has a CCL when running plates.
BPD145

8 months ago

0 comments

Well written. I too am bothered when people, even other officers, put me down for carrying off duty. I'm not paranoid or a hotshot. It just makes sense to me to hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst. As for a good concealment rig I carry a Golck 27 in a tuckable K&D holster. It rides inside the waistband and is very hidden and secure. I've tucked it a few times, and though it does a pretty good job of concealing, I personally don't like the added draw time and hassle. I carry the same G27 as my back up. My dept issues the G22 or G23. I chose the G27 as my back up so I can use myduty mags if I need to transition to my back up. Something to think about.
gbgbsr

8 months ago

0 comments

Thanks, that was the most concise, insightful, well thought out article I've read in a while. That's why I listen to the veterans, their insight is immeasurable.
CopwithGlock

8 months ago

0 comments

Good article and I really liked the input on carrying a 3rd gun. Look forward to reading future articles on this valuable subject.
copboe

8 months ago

1 comment

Great article. I carry a back up .38 and a hide out knife. Like you said the knife does not run dry in a fight.
TejasTRex

8 months ago

22 comments

Awesome. Great Article. Thanks for sharing...
Rajun76

8 months ago

0 comments

Insightful. I must agree with the tactical forward thinking that went into this article. I must be the same approach that is carried into daily pratice.
alvicc1978

8 months ago

0 comments

Very good article Frank. No wonder you never made sergeant, you think tactically!!
alvicc1978

8 months ago

0 comments

Very good article. Every officer should read and consider the ramifications of having only one, or two, weapons. Most administrators think like the Command Sergeant Major in "We Were Soldiers", who said, "If I need an M-16 there will be plenty of them lying around the battlefield."
CHIEF601

8 months ago

0 comments

ONE MORE THING I FORGOT TO MENTION IS CALIBER. JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION, BUT I'VE ALWAYS LIKED A CALIBER THAT STARTS WITH A 4. THEY OPEN A GOOD SIZE WOUND CHANNEL AND TAKE LOTS OF TISSUE WITH THEM AS THEY TRAVEL THROUGH MAGGOTS. I'M NOT SAYING THAT A 357 ISN'T GOOD (EITHER MAG OR SIG), BUT ITS HARD TO BEAT A 45 OR 40. AS AMMO MANUFACTURERS MAKE BETTER AMMO, THE BIG 4'S LOOK BETTER EVERY DAY. A 44 SPECIAL OR MAG IS A GOOD CHOICE AS WELL IF YOU CAN FIND ONE THATS COMFORTABLE TO CARRY CONCEALED.
CHIEF601

8 months ago

0 comments

ONE MORE THING I FORGOT TO MENTION IS CALIBER. JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION, BUT I'VE ALWAYS LIKED A CALIBER THAT STARTS WITH A 4. THEY OPEN A GOOD SIZE WOUND CHANNEL AND TAKE LOTS OF TISSUE WITH THEM AS THEY TRAVEL THROUGH MAGGOTS. I'M NOT SAYING THAT A 357 ISN'T GOOD (EITHER MAG OR SIG), BUT ITS HARD TO BEAT A 45 OR 40. AS AMMO MANUFACTURERS MAKE BETTER AMMO, THE BIG 4'S LOOK BETTER EVERY DAY. A 44 SPECIAL OR MAG IS A GOOD CHOICE AS WELL IF YOU CAN FIND ONE THATS COMFORTABLE TO CARRY CONCEALED.
fedcop83

8 months ago

1 comment

Unfortunately I'm sure some of your readers...myself included, work for agencies that prohibit the carry of a backup or second gun alltogether.
iceman4563

8 months ago

29 comments

Great article. I've only been a policeman for 15 years. I made a commitment when started to do two things daily. Always wear my vest and carry at least a second gun. My five years on SWAT on every entry or mission I carried three, my primary (MP-5 or M-16, duty handgun and a third BUG). Unlike Frank my frame does not allow me to conceal anything. Creative dressing and determination allowed me to keep those two promises.
princehall_141

8 months ago

16 comments

I enjoyed your article, I will be forwarding it to other officers. I am sure an email to a superior or two will happen as well. I am relating in ways that are almost shamefull. I am in an agency that would rather be re-active then pro-active...we are a nicer more gentle police agency...It is nice to know that without knowing it, there are others out there that have the same mind set as 75 percent of our agency..prepare for battle but pray that day never comes!
masiemens

8 months ago

146 comments

Good article Frank…looking forward to the next article one. And nice feedback from all! Some valid points here to think about.
alexy

8 months ago

1 comment

I carry a glock 26 in the front trauma plate pocket of my vest. Modify the pocket so it is velcroed on and I can just reach between the buttons of my uniform shirt and feed your fingers under the the pannel open to get ot the gun it is actually pretty quick. and secure so it won't fall out if I gget to rolling around with someone.
mm107

8 months ago

0 comments

I completely agree, I carry a hideout gun as well as a backup myself. My H.O.G is a NAA mini. I love it.
geostantonster

8 months ago

2 comments

How many people here carry a backup? how bout three guns as Frank aluded to in his article? A backup is a no-brainer, but a third gun? Just wondering how many on here carry 3.?? Thanks!
brooklynsergeant

8 months ago

110 comments

I agree 110%, a concealed weapon should remain concealed, until you need it. I agree about a backup weapon too, however I disagree with a 25 auto, I have seen amny perps shot with a 25 and just become more annoyed. Heavy winter coats can stop a 25, I prefer the good old 38 revolver, simple, reliable and with a 158 grain lead hollow point or Hydra-shock, it gets your message across.
BCPS

8 months ago

12 comments

Frank brings up some very valid points and keeping these issues in the forefront of our minds is what keeps us in the sharp and ready for any situation. The only issue that I did not see him bring up is the issue of your own departments policy. I am authorized to carry a back up gun but only in certain calibers. A .25 auto hide out gun would be a serious infraction of the rules and would jeopardize my employment status. Be safe and be alert, but be legal as well.
cop89110

8 months ago

37 comments

Oustanding information and Thanks for it
jeffco1

8 months ago

0 comments

good information
Robocop33

8 months ago

37 comments

I agree, Frank is obviously knowledgeable. This article is fine but I am not sure the next article about the where and how should be accessible to the general public. I know that many of the bad guys understand the tricks of the trade etc but they are never really sure as there is no standard and some actually have no idea. I would hate for one that is ignorant of this possibility is the one that gets the drop on a cop. I would hate to think he learned something from an article written by a cop that ended up getting a brother officer killed. I have no problem talking with other cops about this subject but I do not discuss it publicly even if it is not real secret. Let them keep on guessing.
Tony_Riffel

8 months ago

9 comments

Outstanding advice.
DELEATED

8 months ago

0 comments

I've carried everywhere from boot to breast plate... I agree 100%.
morgenwolf

8 months ago

0 comments

I agree, good article. I wish my commander were able to sound out the bigger words in this one. Maybe he would be able to see the need of a second weapon. Thank you Frank for your sharing your expertise.
TxLawMan33

8 months ago

21 comments

Great article.
perl153

8 months ago

2 comments

Great article, the brass need to read this and remember with the street is like, IF they ever worked it.
Archangel72

8 months ago

1 comment

This is a really good article, I can't wait for the next one.
CHIEF601

8 months ago

0 comments

GREAT ARTICLE. I PERSONALLY WOULD NEVER TELL ANY OF MY OFFICERS WHAT OR HOW MANY WEAPONS THEY COULD CARRY. I ENCOURAGE THEM TO CARRY OFF DUTY AND TO CARRY A BACKUP ON DUTY. YOU NEVER KNOW. THE FIRST RUN IN A GUN FIGHT IS TO HAVE A GUN. ENOUGH SAID ON THAT. AS FAR AS CONCEALED CARRY GOES, I AGREE WITH THE NUGE ON THAT. THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS YOUR PERMIT PERIOD. IF ANY OF YOU LIKE THE FANNY PACK, LOOK AT THIS WEB SITE http://www.holsterheaven.com/ NICE LEATHER BAGS FOR ABOUT $15 STAY SAFE BROTHERS & SISTERS
baruch50

8 months ago

0 comments

There is some very good advice here. Good article!
HKTX403

8 months ago

0 comments

Great article
asevenpointstar

8 months ago

16 comments

What a great article. I agree that the administrators that criticize, berate, or question an officer carrying back-up and hide-out weapons have no idea of real street work. Being a cop today is more dangerous than ever. More and more of our "clients" have no compunction in taking on an officer, be it with a weapon or not. We need to be ready to respond; on-duty or off. Our lives depend upon it!
JIMROC

8 months ago

1 comment

You need a concealed weapon where you can get to it.
JBeau

8 months ago

151 comments

Amen Brother!
millerbw3398

8 months ago

8 comments

Bravo! well said!
bad_LT

8 months ago

0 comments

In VA when you run a drivers license check it will advise if the person has a concealed weapons permit.
navycop

8 months ago

21 comments

Great Article, invaluable info

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Deputy's Observations: Concealed Carry

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